tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-946235325566947321.post4624827704815788449..comments2024-03-21T12:52:22.965-07:00Comments on Olicanalad's Games: Green snow. The Battle of Mollwitz 1741.JAMES ROACHhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04019888286247164276noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-946235325566947321.post-67064580374375287992017-02-05T12:13:17.586-08:002017-02-05T12:13:17.586-08:00Thank you, Andrew, for this find. This is probably...Thank you, Andrew, for this find. This is probably where Asprey got his "2 feet of snow", from the "horse's mouth" as you put it. It's nice to see my theory about knee-deep snow at Mollwitz corroborated by Frederick himself.Jeff Berryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09188876209461291938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-946235325566947321.post-88247023132296714152017-02-04T09:50:52.224-08:002017-02-04T09:50:52.224-08:00The German General Staff History, attachment 137 q...The German General Staff History, attachment 137 quotes Frederick's own "Histoire de mon temps" page 226. "Zwei fuss hoher Schnee bedeckte die Erde." In reference to the ground around the small stream from Alzenau to Pampitz. Horse' s mouth?<br /><br />Andrew Brentnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03879202271300223714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-946235325566947321.post-9241755972907772222017-02-04T09:50:48.241-08:002017-02-04T09:50:48.241-08:00The German General Staff History, attachment 137 q...The German General Staff History, attachment 137 quotes Frederick's own "Histoire de mon temps" page 226. "Zwei fuss hoher Schnee bedeckte die Erde." In reference to the ground around the small stream from Alzenau to Pampitz. Horse' s mouth?<br /><br />Andrew Brentnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03879202271300223714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-946235325566947321.post-17082783277145641772017-02-04T09:50:04.156-08:002017-02-04T09:50:04.156-08:00The German General Staff History, attachment 137 q...The German General Staff History, attachment 137 quotes Frederick's own "Histoire de mon temps" page 226. "Zwei fuss hoher Schnee bedeckte die Erde." In reference to the ground around the small stream from Alzenau to Pampitz. Horse' s mouth?<br /><br />Andrew Brentnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03879202271300223714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-946235325566947321.post-91736100523276771662015-12-17T11:13:08.094-08:002015-12-17T11:13:08.094-08:00Great post, and a very interesting exchange of opi...Great post, and a very interesting exchange of opinion between wargamers who love history!Fabrizio Davi'https://www.blogger.com/profile/06305604806767721714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-946235325566947321.post-21170546498951980602015-12-15T22:36:59.117-08:002015-12-15T22:36:59.117-08:00An idea would be to have patches of land deep in s...An idea would be to have patches of land deep in snow, like bad going areas, whereas the majority is normal going.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-946235325566947321.post-82674561048557217372015-12-15T12:57:40.321-08:002015-12-15T12:57:40.321-08:00Interesting posting and debate, more please.Interesting posting and debate, more please.Fire at Willhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08816572506887450180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-946235325566947321.post-62865938767865767092015-12-15T12:22:58.744-08:002015-12-15T12:22:58.744-08:00I love following your blog, James, and drooling ov...I love following your blog, James, and drooling over the elegant "war room" you have set up. Such beautiful displays. And thank you, gracious sir, for the generous link to my blog.<br /><br />Re: The controversy over the depth of snow and how it might have had a tactical effect at Mollwitz, I did acknowledge that the two foot claim in Asprey's book was the only one in which I could find a specific measurement. Nearly everyone cites snow, though. And, as I pointed out in my post, this was not unusual even in mid April in the middle of the 18th century. The earth was in the midst of what has been called the Little Ice Age then (1350-1850). Temperatures were estimated to be some 2 degrees C colder than today.<br /><br />Later images of the battle by popular salon painters and illustrators like Knotel and Rochling which show the light dusting that's been mentioned were made some century-and-a-half later, after the Little Ice Age had ended. So I don't think we can use those as documentary proof of conditions.<br /><br />As eye-brow raising as Asprey's claim of two feet (or let's just say "deep") might sound, it does explain some anomalies that troubled me about the battle; such as why it took four times as long for Frederick's line to march a mere mile-and-a-half, why the artillery was relatively ineffective, why the Prussians were able to sneak up behind the Austrians in open flat country, and why the Austrian cavalry was so slow. Snow deeper than a dusting would have answered all of those questions.Jeff Berryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09188876209461291938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-946235325566947321.post-18077618789376988512015-12-15T10:59:04.357-08:002015-12-15T10:59:04.357-08:00Thanks, guys.
DAF, On the amount of snow. I'm...Thanks, guys.<br /><br />DAF, On the amount of snow. I'm not sure how much there was. The paintings usually show a dusting, but it seems to have been deeper than that from what my books say.<br /><br />Duffy says: "...when he advanced across the snow fields at Mollwitz." and "....columns of Prussian troops were seen to be uncoiling over the snowy fields."<br /><br />Showalter says: "Spring blizzards cut visibility to yards and immobilised the cavalry of both sides. Even the Austrian hussars, the best scouts in either army, lost track of a Prussian army that periodically lost touch with itself in the driving snow. But by 10 April the sky was clear, the snow frozen over."<br /><br />I think, from this, that it was probably more than a dusting. At any rate, it will make for an interesting game to have it deeper. There aren't too many occasions you get to fight 18C battles in the snow, so I'm game for a bit of exaggeration. I'm going to speak with Peter before making a final ruling on the effect of snow on cavalry - he has horses and will know.JAMES ROACHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04019888286247164276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-946235325566947321.post-70398975374697965542015-12-15T10:29:08.743-08:002015-12-15T10:29:08.743-08:00What a great looking game!!!!What a great looking game!!!!Ray Rousellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07352596392520905197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-946235325566947321.post-92107254641103496722015-12-15T07:12:09.277-08:002015-12-15T07:12:09.277-08:00The place cards are a great touch --- would be gre...The place cards are a great touch --- would be great for running convention games so may have to steal that idea ;-)Jay Whitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11526516499890662958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-946235325566947321.post-23809062853748265322015-12-15T05:50:44.715-08:002015-12-15T05:50:44.715-08:00Mr. Barry's account of Mollwitz on the Obscure...Mr. Barry's account of Mollwitz on the Obscure Battles site is very good, however, my opinion is that he has vastly over stated the amount and condition of the snow on the day of the battle. Come on, two feet of snow is not even close to realistic! How could cavalry charge under such conditions, much less infantry or artillery being able to move. I think that he is relying too much on third or fourth hand accounts of the battle written by the likes of Carlyle, who is know to get a bit carried away with his prose. Unless you can find the same information from three sources, I would heavily discount the contention that they were fighting in such deep snow.<br /><br />JimDer Alte Fritzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01578422757511400566noreply@blogger.com